On-going Dog Correspondence (more added 4/5/2012)

Posted April 5th, 2012 — Filed in Stockdogs, Stockmanship

To: Eunice@stockmanship.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 2:33 PM

Good morning Bud and Eunice & nbsp; &n bsp;  . . . . . I have been using the dvds that i have got from you to handle my cattle. It works so well that my cows walk every where they go now and will stay in the corral for hours with gate open chewing cud or laying down. I have worked with three different groups of cattle and they all handle the same. But i took me twenty to forty hours per group to get them this way. I am wondering if this is normal amount time to settle them for a first timer. Because i want to go to Alaska to gather cattle or maybe start a ranch there some day. I am working with the  . . . .   ranch . . . . to gather 150 head . They have not been handled in 25 years and the island is 33.000 acres. I heard you have done this before and if the handling was the same on wild cattle that had gone feral. I also started working my border collie pups on the cattle , once i could handle them to help keep them bunched. But now their getting bigger with more bite I want the dogs to work on their own but the cattle don’t like the amount of pressure they put on them. But i am trying to built confident in my pups to bite , only when they need to with out making a trial dog. I was wondering if going to . . . .  was getting in over my head or what i would need to do to make this happen to prepare my self and the dogs. & nbsp; &n bsp; &nb sp; &nbs p; & nbsp; &n bsp; I would be every grateful for any expertise that you would be willing to share. Thanks for time  *************************

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:36 PM

The length of time it takes to work animals will be determined by the skill of the person doing it more than where the animals are at.   This worked with reindeer in Alaska where there were no fences and the area was 5 million acres or actually all of North West Alaska that the deer wanted to use.  It worked on the cattle on the eastern end of Umnak Island, Alaska  which had at least 350,000 acres. It worked on cattle on Simeonof Island which had about 15,000 acres. These were all wild animals and it would take about 3 hours working with the cattle, then a person could drive them anywhere. The reindeer took about 24 hours to get them to working and drive them 20 to 30 miles to a corral. The same thing is used to work any animal, wild or tame, and in big or small areas.      You keep writing about the dogs and their bite. This is strange to me as the dog should know when it needs to bite or how much pressure to use, any pup should learn this in about 2 weeks unless the person keeps interfering, then it may take forever. If the person can be close enough to tell the dog when to bite then the person doesn’t need a dog, just work the animals without the dog. Everything with wild animals could be done with or without the dogs, good dogs just make it easier.      The animals you are talking about have no idea what a dog is and the dog had better be able to work properly or it will do more harm than good.  Working these kind of animals is not that difficult, people just make it difficult when they talk about how long it will take or what they should do. These are just animals and should be worked that way. When a person thinks they are different that makes it more difficult. When you see the animals they will tell you what needs to be done and you had better do that and forget about how long it will take. Take the time to do it right, then it will take a lot less time and you will get the job done. There is not much that I can tell you, except just work them like animals forget about the time and make it work. Then and only then will you be able to succeed at things like this. Bud ***************************

To: Eunice@stockmanship.com Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:54 PM

Happy thanks giving Bud Eunice Many thanks for your fast reply. The pup i have been working has only seen cattle 7 times so i will be patient and look forward to the weeks to come. He is 13 months. The other pup is 8 months old shows interest but only wants to circle wide staying way off the herd. with no pressure. but the cows can run him off at any time if they want to. So he may need more time to grow up. But his dad has no fear of cattle and loves hanging off their heads even if they got horns and get hooked flipped in air and will go right back in there to get aholt. Hard on the cows the their ears. Not what i’am looking for in a dog. But i’am afraid if i don’t start him early he may turn into a head hunter with out fear. Thanks for your time  *****************************

Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:20 PM

The only reason a dog works like you are saying is because he is not emotionally right. You are either getting him too excited when you send him, he is competing with either another dog or he is rushing to work as hard and as fast as he can before you call him off. Re-read the dog material on our website. Spend a lot of time “pushing” him around the herd without saying anything. Anytime he is overworking just push him out of there. Just take that spot away from him but don’t say anything that will cause him think that you don’t want him to work. Just push him to another spot to work. As long as he is working correctly you can leave him alone and let him bring the cattle to you. Just because a pup comes from rough stock doesn’t mean that he will be too rough. Good luck. Bud ************************************

Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:28 PM To: Eunice@stockmanship.com

I don’t mean to keep buging you. There are twenty head left on . . . .  island after the cowboys had caught eight in a week. I told them i could catch the rest and to leave them alone. They went off feed and most are sick now. So i have a week to do it but it’s hard to track them in the leaves. It’s all brush and black berriers and swap. As soon as they see you their off and running.   I can track them fine when their in a hurry but when they slow down they don’t hardly leave any tracks it”s like they tip toe . I’ve been out there of three days and only seen the cows twice a total of about ten seconds for both times. I was thinking of taking out one of my dogs to help me track them . But the cowboys used dogs it seems they only had one command get aholt and some of their ears are gone. So i’am not sure if i should use my dog or not but i can’t track them. Or should i snare one and put a bell on it. I hope i can catch them befor they come back.  . . . . . Thanks *****************************

Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:23 PM

Don’t really know how to begin answering this.  I have very little idea about what the area is like or how much you know about getting these kinds of animals.  Also I know nothing about what kind of dogs you have or would use.  You state that the other guys had dogs that only had one command.  Not sure what commands would have to do with dogs stopping and holding cattle until a person would come and drive the cattle.  When trying to work this kind of cattle with dogs the commands are of very little or no help at all.  What is needed are dogs that KNOW how to work this kind of animal.  When you have animals that you don’t get to see it is very hard to use dogs that work by command.

In the situation you describe, where you can’t see the animals the dog would have to work without commands as you wouldn’t be able to see the dog to give commands. A good dog for gathering the kind of cows you described needs 2 commands, they are “GO” then the dog works the animals properly then “COME”. That is all that is needed but that is needed. Good dogs wouldn’t chew the ears off of cows, the dogs would just keep the animals together until the person arrived and then the animals could be driven home.

It is very difficult to work this kind of animal with dogs that don’t know how to work this kind of animal. Working the wrong kind of dog will only cause the cattle to be harder to work. You keep using the term “cowboy” a cowboy knows how to work cattle these people have no idea how to work cattle or to how to use a dog on cattle.  Putting a bell on one cow would only help you hear them and you would still need to see the cows to be able to work them and drive the cows in.

When you asked the first questions some time ago, what I said was to spend some time learning how to work animals properly and learn how to let a dog learn how to work properly. There has been plenty of time if it had been spent wisely for you to have learned this.  It is very difficult to learn how to work animals when trying to work animals you can’t see.  It is also very difficult to try and use a dog that needs commands to work animals you can’t see.

Sometimes learning is slow and there will be some problems along the way.  Trying to learn fast or trying to do things way beyond your ability will only make the learning slower and even impossible.

You don’t owe me anything but if you really want to do something for me, just slow down, do things where you will succeed and actually learn how to work animals before you attempt thing that are way beyond your ability. Bud *******************************

Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:59 PM To: Eunice Williams

Well Bud i may be a slow learner but i’am not giving up . I got a few more days and praying for snow. The area is 1200 acres it looks like Africa it goes from sea level to 500 ft above sea level on the east side. With a swamp in middle of that goes north and south theres about 100 yards on either side of swamp goes to the ocean. Down around swamp alots of black berries . Alots of down old growth trees all over island . It’s thick you can see 20 to 40 yards most of the time . There are two salt flats that are mostly wide open with patches of brush one is about twenty acres one on north end by the swamp and one on west end of the island that is about 100 acres . There is a road half way around the island on west end.

I don’t know much about getting these kinds of animales so i have found out . I can work the animales if i could see them or find them. These are my first bunch of wild cows. I’ve watched your 1990 dvd on herding . I can herd and settle my cows but these are a diffrent story. I missing something so all i know is what you tell me. I’am going to slow down for sure. Dogs two 14 month old border collies and one at 10 months .  10 months just circles the cattle and won’t stop with no bit. Seen cattle 7 times.  One 14 months wants to circle the cattle with bit until tried when go to get a drink and leaves the cattle. Seen cattle 15 times And the other 14 months has to much eye and freezes up until they move but will bring cattle. Seen cattle 35 times I havn’t work them much togethor because the cows are calving now. All cows have hornes and know how to use them. Their Texas long horns The dogs were to weak to work them but their getting better i only work them every week or two. The last time i worked them it took me two hours to get them in with the new babies. The cows are stronger than the dogs but i try not to say much their starting to work together if they tag team them they can move them or get the cows to move off them. You said they had to learn on their own. Befor they calved i took put them in the pen 20 minutes Maybe i need better dogs you know of some. One of 14 months old dog i just got two weeks for1500 the one that freezes up but the other dogs help to unfree him. I think they will get better with age. I may be asking way to much . ************************

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 7:03 AM

You don’t understand what I mean about the dogs learning how to work animals without commands. That is alright, it’s not my purpose in life to have people work dogs that know how to work animals.

The dog that will hold the cattle until it gets tired then leaves to go to water is over-working because he has never been allowed to learn how to work. The dog should be able to work several hours without getting tired.  The other dog with too much eye would hold the cattle and get them to working but you are putting too much pressure on him because you don’t let the dog have the time it needs to get the animals working for it.  The 10 month old is doing what it should and would hold the animals if given time but might get tired because of its age.

With these kind of cows I would take all three dogs and just let them hold the cattle for a while and hope the dogs didn’t bite just hold the animals for a while. Then move up and call the dogs to me, if the cows start moving at a walk I’d just follow, if they started running I’d send the dogs. When the dogs stopped the cows I’d just get close enough to see, then wait a little while then move up and call the dogs to me. If the cows run have the dogs stop them if the cows walk I’d drive them.

The dogs don’t need to bite they just need to stay calm and circle the cattle slowly and hold them. As the dogs get tired they will learn to go slower and learn patience at the same time. As soon as the cows learn that running is no good because the dogs can stop them but the dogs aren’t biting and causing them to split up then the cows will work for you. All I would say to the dogs would be when to go and when I wanted the dogs to come to me. Also, I’d give the dogs time to teach the cows and not be trying to speed things up.  That is what I would do and I would get the cows and would end up having three dogs that learned how to work animals. What you do will be up to you. Bud ******************************

Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:34 PM To: Eunice Williams

Got back from island . It went good first day found a three year old bull and a yearlin sent the dogs and they stopped them and held them for about three hours . started to move them they went dogs stopped them until i got to close and split them and lost them both my bad. Next set had 6 in it same thing but i stayed back off them and in the end i could get about 70 feet from them but my dogs got tired and lost them it was dark. Next day lost my dogs all day and only seen three cows . Day three found one cow at 11am and got her half way around island by dark.  My dogs are easy to call off when the cows are stopped but if they move they don’t come back until she stops. So i had to tie 2 up that i could catch and push the cow over my one  *********************************

Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:00 PM

This is what I mean about the dogs knowing their job. Three dogs should be able to hold the cattle for however long it takes and not get tired. The dogs only got tired because they were over-working. Dogs that know their job will not over-work the animals. If you could drive one cow with one dog ahead of the animal, then these animals are not that hard to work. The only reason that you can’t get close before the cattle will split up is because the dogs are overworking the animals, then with your pressure the animals will split up to get away from the extra pressure. Your dogs are fine, they just don’t understand what their job is and will overwork. This is caused because of the way dogs are worked, they never get a chance to actually learn how to do their job. A working dog needs to learn patience, this will allow them to stay calm and not overwork. In order to do this the person working the dog would also have to learn some patience. When the dogs work these kind of animals properly they just stop the animals then stay still until the animals try to leave then the dogs will stop the animals again then just stay still. Dogs that just keep working will not let the animals settle down, then when you get close that is too much pressure and the cattle will split up.

Dogs that know their job will use just enough pressure to stop the animals but not enough pressure to keep the animals excited. The dogs that know their job will teach the animals they are working to work properly.  When dogs are trained with commands then the dog doesn’t know what to do and will over work unless the person stops the dog then the dog has no way of learning its job.

A good working dog doesn’t have to be told when to slow down or when to pressure. A good working dog will use what pressure is needed and stop pressuring when no pressure is needed. If the only way to slow the dogs down is with commands then a person has to be so close that the animals the dogs are working will not take all the pressure.

Trying to explain this to someone is like trying to understand someone speaking in some other language. This is why I spend no time trying to teach people how I work a dog because they will never understand. These people will not learn how to LET and HELP a dog learn to work animals without all the commands.  You said that you have read the material that we have published on the website, but from your description of what you are doing with your dogs it doesn’t sound like you understood what I was trying to say.

On ranches when we were working animals there was times when our dogs would be out of our sight for 2 or 3 hours and they would do their job and do it right. The dogs were working the animals properly not us working the dogs to work animals. The dogs should learn how to work animals properly then it is the dogs working the animals properly not you telling the dog what to do so the dog will work the animals.    Bud   ********************

 

To: Eunice Williams <eunice@stockmanship.com> Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2012 2:32 PM

Thanks Bud for reply. I’am trying to let the dogs work as much as possible with no commands . Two of the dogs really don’t know any commands other than their names and the other one i bought got beat on so i’am trying to let them work on their own . The commands i use is to go when i see the cows they stop them then i don’t say anything for hours . Should i wait longer. The bunch of 6 cows we got the dogs seemed like they we’re trying to bring them to us . Will the dogs bring cattle to me with me out in front or should i try to drive them back like you said . If the dogs put on to much presssure the cows go out in the ocean or in the brush and stand there . Thats when i call them back but as soon as the cows starts to go they put them back in the ocean or the brush . That’s good they hold them but than what. I’am thinking of running 2 dogs not 3 and maybe they won’t over work as bad . I only go out for 3 days at a time because the dogs get sore but maybe i should stay longer and let them start to slow down and work the stock being sore should slow them down and not over work them as bad. Well Bud i think you have it all figured out on working animales and dogs to . I will listen and try anything you say i know it will all work out in the end because your the master handler.. Going back out tonight at 7 pm to try again i have 2 more weeks left. I will get it done. *******************

From: Eunice Williams <eunice@stockmanship.com>

Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 9:54 AM

First thing is I don’t have it all figured out. I’ve spent many years working all kinds of animals in many different situations. I’ve been around working dogs that were mine and dogs that other people were working.  It isn’t possible to explain how I would work your dogs.

You say that you are trying to work the dogs with no commands. At no time did I say to not use commands on your dogs. What was said is to get that job done the dogs should know their job so they didn’t need commands. It isn’t possible to just quit using commands and have that get the job done. If the dogs know what to do they could bring the cows with you in front. If the dogs don’t know what to do then that job is just too much for them.

When I said that I would take the three dogs to go get the cows – First they would be taught to work properly, that would take 2 or three days. Then I’d take the dogs and do just like I said.

When you first wrote you said the trouble was that you couldn’t get to where you could see the cows. By using the dogs they helped you to get to see the cows. After being able to see the cows you found that more was needed.

The problem with getting difficult animals is that more is needed than most people think when they start. Then after starting it seems that with just a little bit more of this or that they will be able to succeed.  When you ask what the dogs will do – ? ?   You are with them and see exactly what they will do. That is why I keep saying the dogs need to learn what you want and expect of them before they can be expected to do it.

You are able to see the cows – then it is up to you to either work the cows yourself or teach the dogs how to keep the cows out of the brush or ocean.  You have had several months to learn how to work animals better and now you’ve had some time to teach the dogs. If some of that time had been spent with you learning and teaching your dogs, getting these animals would not be difficult. ****************************

From: Eunice Williams Sent: Tuesday February 07, 2012 11:24 AM

Here is an item that Bud wrote for our Subscription website.  You might find something of interest in it. . . . .   Eunice

I don’t teach people how to work dogs and never did really train dogs to work animals.  Over my life I’ve worked lots of different animals, I’ve used dogs, used horses and even worked with a few people.  I’ve found that while there is some differences, it is all much the same. It is all about how we communicate with the animals, dogs, horses or people and then how we use that communication to TEACH them.  I’ll write about what I think is the proper way to work animals to get the best results.

Working any animal then is teaching the animal how to do the job required.  If we want a group of cows to go through a certain gate it will work best if they understand what we are telling them to do. Give the cows time to learn what our movements mean and time for us to learn what the animals are telling us about where they want us to work to have them go through the gate.

Working animals is TEACHing them to respond to our movements properly.  Our movements should be because of what we have LEARNed from the animals about where and how much they want us to move.

Working a dog is a little bit different, now we are working an animals that is going to work cattle, sheep or other animals for us.  When we are working animals we should be teaching them how to do what we want them to do.  Working a dog should be teaching the dog how to do what we want.  I say “should be” because most people want to control and MAKE animals do things, making animals do things doesn’t always work in difficult situations.

Back to the dogs –  After a few years I learned that if a dog learned how to properly work animals and it was allowed to work with what the dog did best then things worked really well. It is not necessary to control a dog or tell it every move to make. The dog can learn its job much faster and will do a better job –  using control will take much longer and will take a lot away from what the dog could actually do. With control it is necessary to be able to see the dog to give commands.  The dog that understands how to work animals will work properly without you being able to see the dog.

The dog can LEARN to come to you or it can be MADE to come to you.  The dog that learns will come when called, the dog that is made to come will come to you most (or some) of the time.  The dog that learns to work will not overwork animals, the control dog has to be stopped or it will overwork (pressure too much).  It takes a lot less time to teach a dog what its job is than to use control as the way to work the dog.

When working livestock, dogs, or people teach them how to do their job then just see that they do it.  Teaching first, then having animals, dogs, or people that know what to do will give you the most control over how good any job is done.

People want control but what control do they need? There was a time in the West when there were no fences and people still controlled the animals. The Indians had horses.  There were no fences or corrals – what was their control?  People I knew would herd sheep in the mountains with dogs, in the morning the herder would get the sheep started in the direction they wanted, then the dogs would keep the sheep together and go with the sheep till midday when the sheep would lay down. The herder would go out in the afternoon and get the sheep headed back toward camp then leave as the dogs would keep the sheep together and let them graze back to camp. These dogs had learned their job and needed no control from the person to do their job, all they needed was to know what direction they should go. These dogs might not be seen by the owner for 6 or 7 hours during the day and they still did their job properly. The dogs were easy to call of because the dog that knows their job knows that is part of their job.

Eunice’s dad herded sheep in Idaho as a young man.  He said “Every couple of weeks a “camp tender” would bring supplies to each of the several herders in that area.”  He said “One of the herders had died of a heart attack over a week before, but the dogs still had all of the sheep – Taking them out in the morning and bringing them back to camp in the evening.”

Understand the difference between “learning” and “control.” With learning you have control, with control there may be very little learning and then control is all you have.  It doesn’t take long to teach and then have the control you need, trying to control without the teaching will take much longer and still require you to see the animal, dog or even person in order to keep control.*************************************

Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:22 PM To: Eunice Williams

Thanks for the subscription website info it makes alot of sense . If i can’t work my dog’s like that then i don’t need dogs’. Well the good news is the dogs can hold the cows and seem to be not over working . The cows did’nt go to the ocean or the brush this time i had them out in the open and got real close . Now all i need to do is keep the dogs on the back side and go to the corral . I all almost thought trying to teach me and the dog’s and the cows all at the same time was’nt going to happen . It seems to be coming together now .. Many thanks ************************************

Sent Friday, February 10, 2012

Good to hear you are making progress with the dogs and the cows.

When working animals the teaching should come before the working. Dogs need to be taught and helped to learn the job that you expect from them.  With just control, the dog must learn the commands – he still hasn’t learned how to work animals without your help. The dog that is under control with commands must be where it can be seen or the control is lost.  The dog that learns how to control the animals that he is working, will work the animals properly with or without you being able to see him.

Never stop your learning, never stop teaching the animals that you want to work with.  Bud  *************************************

Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 12:42 PM

Good morning bud and Eunice   I went out and worked the long horns today the dogs can hold them but they can’t bring them to me . The cows have babies so i get behind them and can drive them with the dogs on the sides is that o.k . We got them in the corral with no commands . The cows and dogs are getting the plan down at least at that place . I know i need to give a few commands but i wanted to see what would happen . I need to find some dog broke cattle to work and keep them on the back side . I hope i ain’t making bad habits .   Island cattle i got out in the open i had caught the night befor we went out at 11 pm found them at 12 pm and had them until 5:30 am in the morning they got in the swamp and we lost them . The next day i found them at 4:30 pm and pushed them out of the trees into the open meadow they dropped their heads and they all started drinking . The cows were 100 yards from water to start with. The cows are not drinking or eating wright so should we leave them alone for a few weeks . I have a friend of mine that wants to go out and camp out their and walk around and try to bunch them or would that be to much pressure. We have new dead line the end of march.  *********************

Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 03:16PM

Understand this about commands,  it is alright to use all the commands that you want, the point is the dogs have to learn how to work properly without commands then they will know what to do when they are out of your sight.  This is not about the use of commands, it is about the dogs learning their job with or without commands.

With dogs that you will want to go stop animals in country where you are not able to see them, it isn’t wise to use the dogs on the side while you drive very much.  If you must do this be sure to let the dogs go to the lead and completely stop the  animals once in a while.

It is really your job to learn how to properly drive these cows or have the dogs learn how to properly move the animals with you in front. Dogs just have to learn how to move cows with little calves and the cows have to learn the dogs can move them but are no threat to their calves.

The problem with the cows on the Island is that you have spent all your time trying to bring them off the Island and no time trying to teach them how to work – and then bring them off the Island. These kind of animals need dogs that don’t over-pressure and people that will just work along with them until they understand what they are suppose to do and then they will drive easily. This is why the cows are not eating or drinking properly.

You will have to figure out what is best for you to do. Time by itself will not change this situation. The person and the dogs will have to change enough to let the animals learn how to be worked then things will work properly.  I have no idea how much your friend could help, but probably very little.

There has been a lot of time spent on this project and most of it is caused because time is what has been the biggest concern. The animals had to be off by a certain time and so much time was spent by other people trying to get them. Then how much time was spent following the animals then how many hours for each thing that happened.

Working animals is not about time.  The animals don’t care about time they only care about what you or the dogs do.  There has been plenty of time to have learned how to work animals properly and for the dogs to have learned how to work animals properly.  Instead, the time has been spent trying to get animals that have no idea what you want and only want to get away from you or the dogs. The animals have actually been trained to just wait you out and then they win.  When doing something like this forget about time, if this isn’t possible then forget about the whole thing and this will save lots of time.

Learn what it takes to teach this kind of animal how to be worked.  Teach your dogs how to work this kind of animal.  Teach the animals how to work for you then this job will get done, and in very little time.

Do these things in the proper order.  You learn, you teach, the animals learn, then you get the job done. The job doesn’t come first, the teaching and learning should come first, then the job.

I realize that this has to be difficult for you but it isn’t possible for me to tell you exactly what you should do without me being there and seeing what is happening.     Bud     ***************************************

Received 3/13/2012

 Just been working my pups on some yearlings it’s all coming together. Went out to the island and the dogs stopped the cows and after about an hour they were bring the cows to me i was sitting down i stood up and the cows attacked me . I must need to move a little. The cows are moving off the dogs nice but the cows are more worried about me now. So i slowed way down and started keeping their eyes on me if they look away then i move . it seems to be working.
Received 3/29/2012

Comment:    We are going out to catch the cows on [islsnd] we have to have them off by the 1st. The dogs got sore after 4 or 5 days so we started trying to move them on foot to give the dogs a day or two off . It didn’t go so good the first thing i do is stop when i see them and wait until they move off of me on their own but they watch me for about 5 to 10 minutes and then run like the wind. So i slowed way done thinking i was going to fast and getting inside their comfort zone . That didn’t work to good so i started moving and that seems to keep them on me better. But their still running off .

Answer:     A long time ago I told you what way would be the best way to gather this kind of animals.  Let the dogs stop the animals, move up, call the dogs off and start moving the animals if they start running send the dogs to stop them. Then move up and call off the dogs and start driving them if the animals start running send the dogs to stop them.

You have been trying to make the dogs drive the animals with you in front actually making it much harder for the dogs.  After this long it should be easy to work the animals and the dogs should be able to do most anything with them.  Sometimes to learn something new a person has to give up some of the old ways.  Animals don’t have to work for you just the way you may want them to.  They will work for you, and easily do it if you will work with them in a way they can understand what you want.  I’ve gathered animals like this many times and have done it without a dog many times. Also it would only take a few hours to get the animals working for me, and would then just drive them to a corral.

There is much to learn about working animals which most people will not take the time to learn. Then, when some job is a little difficult it will be almost impossible for them to accomplish it.  This should be done in the proper order.  Learn how to work animals properly. Then teach the animals to work properly.  After you have learned and the animals have learned it will be easy to do whatever you want.  With out this any job is difficult.

As I have said it would be impossible for me to tell you exactly what should be done and when to do it unless I was there and could see what the animals are doing.  One thing that you keep saying is how you stop and wait, until the animals move off. Animals don’t understand someone just standing they only understand movement.  Have no idea how many things like this that you do that animals just don’t like or understand.   While most people think you can stand around until animals get settled and that this will help,  animals like this will not get settled by someone standing they will only wait until they think they can get away and then run.  Standing will only teach them they can run and get away and very little else.  The old way of waiting until the animals do something and then stopping them if it is wrong, or the old way of trying to out guess the animals will help very little with this kind of animals.

It is your job to step up, take control and work the animals so they know you know what you are doing and that you have control of them.  This is done by moving properly with the right amount of pressure in the right place and being consistent so the animals know what you are doing and what they should do.

April 2, 2012 

Comment:     Got the cows home from island their doing good . Got them on feed in the corral the first night and water they did’nt drink as much as they should have but they got some . The next morning i worked them again and turned them out on pasture barb wire on three sides and a single hot fence on one side and they stay in . All is well Learned a ton many thanks ty . What state has the most wild cows in it but not Alaska to much money or is their wild cows in every state . Not looking forward to the brush in northwest . But in Eastern Washington high desert way more open and i know their wild cows there. I think i can make a living at catching cows ?

Answer:     Congratulations!  Glad you were able to succeed in getting the animals.  Much of our success will be because we are not willing to quit as much as by how much we know.

Most of the western states and some of the southern states have some cattle that are difficult to gather.  Not many of these are actually wild they are just animals that are difficult to handle.

There are several places that do have animals that are considered wild to gather such as burros, horses, buffalo and a few other kinds of animals.  The Big Bend National Park and the Big Bend State Park did have wild burros they would like for someone to gather. There are other places that have similar situations with wild animals they would like gathered or moved.

There is a demand for someone that can work animals properly enough to be able to gather animals that are difficult and then teach these animals to work for other people.

Success will open up other jobs and failure will close most opportunities.  Good Luck!

March 5, 2012

Question:     I have never been around alot of burros but i have been around alot of horses . Do they work the same way . I havn’t tried this new way on the horses yet but i’am sure i can do it . I was wondering what to charge for catching these kinds of animales . And is their any one else u have coached or helped catching these wild animales full time . Their has to be some honey holes out there i just need to find them and keep learning and it will get easier and easier for me and the animales . I laugh at the people with wild cows now the people think it’s the cows so i try to buy their mean cows cheap . They think if they can’t do it no one can . But i have news for them put your time in and good things will come but not all people have it or ever will.

Answer:     There are a lot of people who have been around animals a lot and still don’t know how to gather difficult animals.  As you should know by now, people just being around animals doesn’t mean much to me.

All the animals that I have worked did work with using the same, correct principals, from horses to grizzly bears, to chickens or anything in between.  I’ve worked many different animals and they all responded to the same things, some just take more of the same thing before they respond.

I have no idea what a person should charge for gathering difficult animals.  It was always my feeling that I earned the most by the success and knowledge that I gained from the experience.  When a person works to accomplish a task and to gain knowledge instead of how much money they will make, it will help their success in getting more jobs and will help their financial future. Develop a reputation for what you can do and the “honey holes” will come to you.

Don’t spend any of your time laughing at other people’s problems working animals, instead spend your time learning what they are doing wrong and them make sure you don’t do the same thing.  What other people think or do is not important it is only what you think and do that is important.

Remember that to do something difficult you are not competing with the other people you are only competing with yourself.   What you are doing today must be better than what you were doing yesterday or you will not succeed very often.  This is not a game where you just have to beat or win against someone not as good as you, here you will have to win against the animals,  the conditions and yourself – with yourself being the biggest problem.